General Lost Tales Review and Discussion

[thagerty]

I have watched B5: Lost Tales.... lets just say I have a friend in the retail industry who got an advanced copy.

The good and bad:

The bad:

Very few actors in the whole thing... up to 5 or 6 only. Story seems to be very limited with the lack of the multitude of sets from the original show. It comes across as more of a test than an actual B5 story. Some shots look VERY blue-screen'ish.

The Good:

The intro will make some of you cry again (as i did), as it is a recreation of the end of "Sleeping in Light" (I cry multiple times even to this day when watching that episode) with G'kar doing a voice-over. Beautifully done!

The visuals, CGI, animation are VERY good. Much better than the original series and everything we have always wanted the show to look like all these years. Babylon 5 itself looks great with lots of detail, even up close. No more LEGO looking pieces or lo-res textures. You even see the words BABYLON 5 on the outer hull of the docking station. Something that was lacking on the original show, and a detail I never thought about...

The ships all also look much better with immensly more detail, and they get real close to the Starfurys to show it! They show a lot of the ships from the show, though very briefly!

The jumpgate and vortex look much better. Quantum space (faster than hyper space) looks cool.

Chris Frankes music is also nice to hear again!

The acting is good, just wish there were more main characters to see...

All in all pretty good, but seems very limited compared to what it should be, but i still liked it. I wanted more of everything which is good. That includes more DVDs!

To those who are wondering my name is Terry Hagerty. I've been a B5 nut since the very beginning. I have made mutiple B5 creations in Lightwave including a Narn Jumpgate, Drazi Sunhawk, and a Vorlon Fighter.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6414094234410701090

You can see these at the various B5 sites that feature such things. I have seen them used by various different people's web pages. I hope they need to use one of my models for reference for a future episode! I was making B5 animation with my little Amiga 1200 (with 10 megs of ram, ooooooh!), way back during the first season, but have since upgraded a little!;)

By the way. I am very thankful for this site. The only current reference to B5 I usualy get. Thank you!

[Seafroggys]

Yeah, its awesome. Sure there were some issues with it (I'll describe them in more detail after people have seen them) but overall......it was good. The FX was awesome, naturally.

SPOILER (I don't know how to do tags)






wtf is up with quantum space?

[Keyan]

...at Best Buy...which comes with a "Best Buy exclusive" mini graphic novel/comic...that nearly made me cry. Haven't had a chance to watch the show yet.

[DarthCaligula]

Is this graphic novel B5 related? I might just decide to get it from there if it is.

[Seafroggys]

Yeah I bought it from Best Buy too. The comic was awesome, though I wonder where in the time frame it takes place?

[Konrad]

Comic was great, DVD was even better. This had whatever may have been missing or not yet developed in “Legend of the Rangers." I'm thrilled.

[Space Ghost]

I bought mine at Suncoast... I didn't get a comic. :(

[croxis]

The comic, and TLT was indeed touching. It reached me even more today as my boyfriend left this morning to study abroad.

[thagerty]

Yes, the opening intro with G'Kar 's voice-over and the Sleeping in Light music kills me. I bawl everytime i watch Sleeping in Light..... (34 year old guy too!)

[Keyan]

Yeah, I'm not sure when in the time frame it takes place.

I'm not sure it really matters though, I don't think JMS was thinking too much about chronological integrity when he wrote it. :)

[ShadowDancer]

thagerty: i was pretty choked up too at that intro. I'm just watching it right now :)

Ok, just finished watching it.....words fail me; I cant describe how good it was to see Babylon 5 again. It was like seeing an old dear friend again for the first time in too many years; it was like picking up where we left off. I honestly can't think of anything wrong with TLT apart from it being too short.

It would have been nice to see Garibaldi and the others too, but who know's, we may yet. When Sheridan talked about G'Kar and then later Franklin being beyond the Rim, I will confess there were a few tears

[WORF]

I thought the way G'kar and Franklin were mentioned was perfectly done and very touching.

Both stories were short but interesting, almost like teasers. I really really hope more will be produced.

Worf

[Space Ghost]

I particularly enjoyed the extras... the tributes were touching. I had no idea Richard Biggs was such a fan of his own show. Too often, especially in SciFi, we see actors who take their show for granted and even look down upon its fans. It was both refreshing and sad to realize how much he cared about the show.

[ShadowDancer]

I have to wait a few more weeks for the extra's. I was bad and couldnt wait for my DVD to arrive

[ZocaloHobo]

Fantastic effects, interesting stories.

It was awesome!!!!!

Only bad part was that it was only 71 minutes long.....:(

I think there will be more of these to come.

[ShadowDancer]

I just had to watch SiL after that. Just finished watching it and I'm now blubbing like a baby :(

[Chaosed]

Got it yesterday. Seen all of it twice, the Sherdon part three times. I don't like demons is space but I saw an out. :)

[HuntSmacker]

At the end, when Sheriden said 'Babylon 5 is about beginnings, and endings - I wonder which this will be?' - I said out loud, "Beginning!!"

[ShadowDancer]

HuntSmacker: Damn straight! :D

[WORF]

Demons in space? I'm pretty sure that it was some sort of dark Vorlon, given the role they played in our history.

Worf

[Seafroggys]

Yeah pretty sure they were just some alien species.

[Space Ghost]

My only complaint, other than how short it was, are the interiors. I know they were on a budget, but the sets weren't up to their usual standard. Maybe next time. :)

[RedAssAg05]

Sets? We don't need no stinkin' sets!!

[ShadowDancer]

I know what you mean, they were taking the utilitarian concept a little to the extreme ;) still, for me it is easily forgiven given the VFX

[samuelk]

If it were just an alien species, then they wouldn't have sent the guy back with the priest to be exorcised.

[croxis]

The Vorlons, being beings of light, were obviously responsible for the various religions for obvious reasons. Perhaps there is more to to exorcisesism than meets the eye. And havent you watched Doctor Who? You should know the power of words! Because the rules of one universe obviously apply to all of them ;)

[HuntSmacker]

Maybe the Vorlons imprisoned these guys on Earth..

Or, what if they are souls of somekind? The Soulhunters said, that once a soul is lost (not taken) then it's lost forever. But maybe that's because they aren't all that fancy enough to understand everything in the universe. Clearly an old species, but they aren't among the first ones to my knowledge? So maybe these things.. are souls on a level/plane that even Soulhunters can't understand.

Going by this method of thinking, it could mean they are human souls - the very human souls that were meant to be reborn into human bodies, however ended up being unable to due to the fact that Minbari souls were being sent to human bodies.. I know, crazy..haha

[Chaosed]

Spoiler inside, pretend there is a red line over this,... I'll be cryptic. When responses were made to things said. That was my hope.

[WORF]

The spoiler tags are [ spoiler ] and [ / spoiler ] but without the spaces.

[David of Mac]

My copy arrived this afternoon. I'm going to watch it tonight, after Doctor Who.

[David of Mac]

And now that I've seen it, I thought it was really good. The parts that were on sets were a bit visually sparse, and the fact that each story only really had three major players was unusually small for the show (it felt like Babylon 5, the stage play, which is by no means a bad thing). I wondered a little why the Priest didn't ask for a telepath to check out the possessed guy when he first thought it was a fraud, since a teep could've projected out false sounds and smells, but I'll just assume Lochley already had a telepath scan him before the Priest came.

[HuntSmacker]

I hated how telepathy didn't get any mention there.

[sinclair]

I think it was too much talking, and yet it didnt give anything much to talk about.

Yeah, that satanic flamethrower guy might be one subject to talk about, but then stuff like this new quantumspace (!?) doesnt really give me a geeky erection...
I'd compare this movie to season 1, a good startup, but still the real B5 feeling awaits itself.

Also it was a disappointment for me to realize that I could have seen all the action clips from the trailer, instead of watching the whole movie...
It was great however, new station looked good, and seeing good old faces again made me feel like the series never ended.

Cant wait for next movie ;)

[HuntSmacker]

I rather liked Q-Space. I love the aggressiveness of the entry/exit.

But we really need more movies people. This needs to be a whole series of movies IMO .. ;)

[croxis]

What we need is a story arc!

[Konrad]

I for one loved the character development and pointed action over endless geek speak about q-space or unneeded action. It was TNT that said “more fights” after all. That’s not true JMS B5. The character focus is why B5 and BSG have such a broader appeal over just dorks.


What we know about q-space:
Makes you dizzy/sick early on. Twice as fast as hyper. Ships can generate their own gateway to it direct from normal space and perhaps use gates to exit at least. What more do you need to know to tell a story? [Londo voice] deflectors, warp fields, mater anti-mater FAH! [/Londo voice]

Talking Points:
Why was Vir only Emp for 10 years?
What happened to Londo?
What are David and Delen up to?
Is David’s keeper still in the jar or has it been given yet?
Would the Prince go after the Narn before Earth and the warlocks?
Has Narn rebuilt at all?
Clearly G’Kar is done with Lyta and lived ~ what happened to her?
Are the technomages back?
Who are Galen’s peeps on B5?
Any more Excaliburs out there?
Was Ivonova on one of those Warlocks that got popped?
Would Garabaldi work with a Techmage given his lack of love for secret groups?
How did they cure it?!?

[David of Mac]

Why was Vir only Emp for 10 years?
Maybe that was just in the evil-Vintari future.
What happened to Londo?
Well, his planet was blown up and he was implanted with a Keeper and forced to do the bidding of the Drakh. At this point in time, I believe Durla, an ambitious and dangerous man who's interest unknowingly align with those of the Drakh, has just been made Prime Minister (he's probably the guy who's first in the Imperial Line of Succession). He challenged Londo's leadership but Londo, though the skilled application of his massive titanium balls, kept Durla off his case. Londo is still quietly resisting the Drakh's control of Centuari Prime.
Is David’s keeper still in the jar or has it been given yet?
It's still in the jar. It'll be given on David's sixteenth, which not coincidentally is shortly before Sheridan and Delenn are captured by the Centauri, and Londo and G'Kar kill each other.
Would the Prince go after the Narn before Earth and the warlocks?
Too far in the future to speculate. Perhaps, by that point, Earth had become the greatest individual empire in the IA, and was thus the largest single threat.
Has Narn rebuilt at all?
Probably. They certainly got their fleet back quickly, if "The Fall Of Centauri Prime" is anything to go by.
Clearly G’Kar is done with Lyta and lived ~ what happened to her?
Sadly, Lyta was killed during the Telepath War, before Crusade began.
Are the technomages back?
Probably not. They like hiding.
Was Ivonova on one of those Warlocks that got popped?
Doubtful. She was probably dead of old age by the time that war would've happened. Even if she wasn't, she'd be long retired from Earthforce, having become Ranger One at the end of Sleeping In Light.
Would Garabaldi work with a Techmage given his lack of love for secret groups?
Probably not.
How did they cure it?!?

Now, that's the six million credit question, isn't it?

[Mundane]

I liked it, a lot. I hope it is more the beginning than the end for Babylon 5!

The intro was nicely done, too bad there will be no G'Kar tale :/

[Sanfam]

Hang on Callista and I didn't get comics with our copy and we both bought them at a Best Buy. WTF?! (I think this warrants a visit...)

[PSI-KILLER]

yeah no comic with amazon order.

[David of Mac]

In a fit of pure evil, not only was the comic a Best Buy exclusive, it was a limited Best Buy exclusive. Only six copies with the comic went to each store, and that's all.

I'm usually stridently against pirating creative works, but for bullshit like this where stuff is yanked off the market for no reason, I make an exception. Or would, if someone scanned the comic and put it up for download. Or even just posted a synopsis more specific than "Expands on the G'Kar and Franklin tribute line in the movie."

[WORF]

I'm forced to agree, most people (including my self) have absolutely no chance of seeing this comic legally and so I'm missing out on part of the B5 story. Not only that, it was dedicated to two of the actors who died and their characters.

Sadly, I think denying the majority of fans a chance to read this story and remember them is actually disrespectful to their memories :(

Worf

[Sanfam]

Anyhoo, my short review:

First segment
I am torn between states in this. I felt that while the Priest and the "Demon" were well cast, Scoggins' performance was the weak to the point of bringing down the entire segment. Her apparent inability to handle green screen and generally emote repeatedly jarred me from the otherwise interesting story. I was also put off by the excessively motion-prone camerawork, which made following the story even more difficult. The harsh transition from filming on green screen with a static/slow moving camera to the more mobile practical set environments made this even more noticable. It just felt excessive at times. And last but not least, where was the music we used to love so much? The soundtrack was sparse, with long stretches of silence that would have felt better hads they been reinforced with musical backup.

Second Segment
Damned near perfect, excluding some of the rushed feeling that went into it. (though I was pleased with how they handled the similarity in style to ACTA. It also left open the possibility of another appearance prior this short story...) It just worked, with the available characters fitting comfortably into the story. Not taking place on B5 made the "bare" feeling caused by the small cast to be far less of an issue. I liked the story, the acting, the resolution. It just felt good and perfectly fitting for a Babylon 5 story.

[HuntSmacker]

I think it would've been better with both stories merged together.

[Biggles]

I was also put off by the excessively motion-prone camerawork, which made following the story even more difficult.

I hated that too. I think it was supposed to be spooky or something, but I just found it annoying. It was as if the station had stopped spinning and the camera was in freefall or something.

[ShadowDancer]

My DVD just arrived in the post this morning! :) That's pretty good delivery time too, coming from the states!

[Falcon1]

OMG you git! :p I got the cd this morning. When I saw the large cardboard sleeve I was sure it was the dvd. Drats just the cd. Oh well better than nothing. Fingers crossed it will be waiting for me when I get home from work tomorrow.

Enjoy watching!

[ShadowDancer]

I just watched the memorials. Deeply touching :( I never knew Rick Biggs was such a fan of his role either. And that picture of G'kar holding Bruce's little boy...priceless!

[HuntSmacker]

I really love the title sequence. When watching that, it feels like all new B5 is about to begin (probably because they used the old series photos for the characters). Truely a good feeling.. Even if it's not really the case :)

When I watch that. It feels like B5 never left

[Biggles]

It never did.

[WORF]

Indeed, it just rested for awhile.

Worf

[Biggles]

I absolutely loved the way Rick and Andreas were worked into the story. It was a beautiful way of remembering them.

[Falcon1]

I pretty much agree with you Sanfam, exact same feelings for me. Part one felt drawn out and far too silent, I actually found that my attention was wandering a little. And yes the camera style was a bit iffy in places, I remember in particular where it focused on the priests hand for a few moments and then move to frame Simon. Didn't quite get why they zoomed on his hand, gave the impression something was going to happen like maybe tremble or something.

Part two was bang on, except for the annoyingly short battle sequence. That was just plain cruel really. Apart from that it was great. Interesting on the quantum space thing, so where did they get that left over Vorlon tech from I wonder? Not something they'd have just left lying around :D It was great to see Peter Woodward play Galen again. He's got such a fantastic screen presence.


Overall then a thumbs up. Its such a fantastic feeling knowing that B5 is finally back. B5 never looked better!!!

[David of Mac]

Maybe they found an unmarked switch on the White Stars and flipped it to see what happens. "Whoa! Hyperspace is blue now! And, what the... we're already at our destination! This kicks ass! Now, where's the ship's laundry?"

On that note, I gave it a thought the other day, and realized that the only time we ever saw a Vorlon ship (or several vorlon ships) in hyperspace, it was in what was described as a "pocket." What if this wasn't a hyperspace cloaking device, but actually the way ships in Quantum Space appear to ships in hyperspace, just like how gravity waves in normal space show up as currents in hyperspace? Since we never saw a Vorlon ship in hyperspace aside from that, they could've been using Quantum space the whole time, and we never knew since, apparently, you get to it through the same jumppoints and jumpgates that get you to hyperspace.

It's not the worst retcon in Babylon 5 history (that distinction goes to explaining that the reason the Minbari always talked like there were only two castes in season 1 was that nobody gave a shit about what the Workers thought. The reason that "Sheridan didn't actually destroy the Black Star between Mars and Jupiter" doesn't count is that it wasn't retconned, just ignored and forgotten.)

[Chaosed]

there was that Vorlon listening post that got destroyed. Could have come from there. It also implies there were others. We know the Shadows left teck for there minions, Perhaps the Vorlons did that too.

[Lord Refa]

You bastards..

I will get it next week prolly...

Oh yea.. I will be in another country then, for the next 4 months or so atleast..

[HuntSmacker]

Don't forget when some of the firstones ships "left for the rim" they didn't use Hyperspace like portals.

[ShadowDancer]

I suspect there are a multiple of ways to get around the galaxy, and hyperspace is merely the simplest, therefore its the one that all the younger races use.

[Chaosed]

I liked how Sheraton becomes an old coot and hates news reporters. :D

[Sanfam]

Regarding Quantum Space: I have no problem with this realm. Aside from the one fleet massing in the hyperspace pocket for an assault on normal space, did we ever see any Vorlon ships moving around in Hyperspace? On top of this, we never once did see a VPK pass through a Jump Point. It seems reasonable that they would use the Quantum Space transition to save such a grotesque effects shot from ever needing to occur. :p Of course, that then leaves the problem of getting to Quantum Space from Hyperspace and vice versa, but it seems reasonable to assume that one could phase from Hyperspace to Quantum Space and vice versa.

I'm good with it as long as we don't suddenly have it too severely retconned into past scenarios.

[ShadowDancer]

would they actually need to go from hyperspace to quantum space though? im sure they could, i just dont really see the need.

[WORF]

I'm thinking that for some reason the VPK is unable to travel into Quantum space, thus they had to use regular hyperspace to move it around. It could be the VPK is too big, or the effects of Quantum space are too unstable for the massive energy the ship must produce or something along those lines.

Worf

[ShadowDancer]

Well if quantum space is faster, im guessing it requires more energy to enter. given the size of the planet killer, could the energy requirements be even beyond the vorlons? or just cant they be bothered spending that amount of energy?

[Akrovah]

I think it may be possible that the Vorlons did always travel in Quantum Space, except when escorting thier PKs. As mentiond, we never see a vorlon ship in HS that I can recall except that pocket thing. And the first thing that jumped to my mind when Sheridan mentiond it being salvaged Vorlon tech was Kosh getting to the station two days early in "The Gathering." Given that, I don;t think it would be unreasonable to assume that they had the tech for some time.

And though the firstones did not use what we would call "Normal" Hyperspace entry points, that does not neccesarily mean that they did not use hyperspace. The Shadows, for instance, were seen multiple times to simple phase in and out of hyperspace.

[Mundane]

Not received my DVD yet :(

[Sanfam]

Again, my assumption is that the hyperspace pocket was simply used as a convenient staging area. Perhaps Quantum Space is too turbulent for such a use, but the Hyperspace pocket was more than sufficient to keep away curious eyes. All it would take in normal space is one rogue ship from any of the major or minor races to (by chance) spot the massive fleet building, which is something I assume could be done from some significant distance. In the Hyperspace pocket, however, they were only able to be spotted through a fluke (the Whitestar's partial Vorlon technology).

And again, I think phasing in and out from Quantum Space would be much less of an effects nightmare for the production team than making yet another massive jump point (It'd be even larger than that the Thirdspace gate required).

[David of Mac]

Well, it's not really that hard to make a gigantic jumppoint. Just scale it up, and adjust the lensflare and light fall-offs to match. They did it for the Drakh supercarrier in Crusade.

And since you still seem to get to Quantum Space through jumppoints (apparently adjusting something on the ship to cause the jumppoint to emerge in Quantum Space, since the effect was felt well before the jump engines were activated), it wouldn't change the effects anyway.

[A2597]

too....real life Dave. ;)

[Sanfam]

David, I don't mean the difficulty of actually performing the task, but rather of making it look dramatic while preserving the impact of having the massive fleet surrounding it look equally menacing. though you do raise a good point. I'll have to re-watch it and see how things work again. I've only seen TLT once now :p

[Mundane]

I got it I got it :)

[Falcon1]

Mine still hasn't arrived. Darn it I wanna see those extras. If I hadn't done a Shadowdancer I've have gone nuts by now :D

[ShadowDancer]

What do you mean done a shadowdancer? there cant be more than one of me surely? and im not sure i like the implications of "doing me" :p

[Falcon1]

Who me I said nothing :p Nah just referring to the sourcing of said digital media. Its a bit rubbish though, I pre-ordered it the moment it became available and still no sign of it.

[Falcon1]

And would you believe it, its just dropped through the letter box!! Woohoo!!!

[ShadowDancer]

So you've had it nearly 3hrs now, watched it yet? :p

[Falcon1]

Hee not yet, have watched the extras though. All very good, some of the editing was a bit choppy but not terrible. Gonna grab dinner and then kick back on the sofa and switch on the surround sound :)

I have to say with the tribute video the bit where JMS describes the most important words... "goodbye"... that really really got me... so simple yet so powerful.

[Keithius]

Got it a few days ago. The first story was kinda "meh" to me. But the second one I thought was pretty good. Though, I thought the sets looked a bit on the cheap side. Still hopefully it sells well enough to have more made. I could hope for a nice big story arc too. :P

[marco@cavet.de]

Hi Terry, nice to see that one of the First One's from the B5 Fan modeller family is still alive. :vorlon:

[shadow boxer]

my 5c

TLT was a glorified de-luxe trailer/ 're-pilot' if ever I saw one.

Lets hope it does the trick and we see a good deal more B5 stuff come to fruition with perhaps even.. dare I say it, a decent game, ( with all due respect to the IFH guys ).

I liked it. Lots.

Given what must have been abysmally small budget, it was great. As always, a good story carries the movie/game/entertainment feature.

Originally, I said it needed more spaceship pron... but... once again, budgetary concerns no doubt kicked in.

I've no complaints provided it really is a beginning...

aside from one small gripe...

...the dopey camera work...

"Oooo look, we have the cool new gyro camera rigs so we can make the camera pitch and roll and rotate and do all this cool shit... I know... lets totally overuse it because we're geeking out on it... the fans will understand !"

I expected better from JMS et al. You should never ever let your medium dictate you art, it should always be a case of your art dictating to the medium, even if you've discovered/have been given access to a new whizzer brush to paint with...

...its almost as bad as shakey-cam.

Unless your camera work enhances and is totally pertinent to what you're doing... STOP FIDDLING WITH IT OR IT WILL FALL OFF. :)

~~~~~~~~

tributes were excellent

[Seafroggys]

Yeah JMS needs to get back his stash of good diretors (and John Flinn) to do the filming.

[Chaosed]

Part of what made B5 great was the small budget they had to work with. They had to concentrate on the story and not what FX could.

B5 Podcast sed the reason everything was -not- gray is they didn't have the money for gray paint. They had to think instead of throwing money at the problems.

Remember the $ curse of the 1st Star Trek TOS movie.

[DarthCaligula]

I wonder if Quantum Space isn't just some dumb thing that JMS is throwing in from nowhere, and if maybe it's a plot point introduced in the first DVD and will be explored as it goes, eventually revealing some bad thing about it, and that's why we don't see it in Sleeping in Light and such.
There was also a good point made at the Lurker's Guide that the reason that the Centauri fleet might have been able to attack Earth so well was that it was using Quantum Space to travel to Earth, rather than Hyperspace which we know Earth would be watching.
Well, I just hope it's not some dumb thing and that JMS knows what he's doing.

[Sanfam]

It really does seem like some dumb thing just thrown in for the "wow" factor. Without it, we wouldn't have fanboyish discussions like this one attempting to distill any semblance of meaning from the tiny bit of technobabble.

I'm still more fond of the idea that the Centauri pulled a Minbari War v2 and just stomped the humans by surprise. Who would really suspect allies to do that, anyway?

Regardless of the near-useless first mention, these things can always be made good. It just takes precise care and feeding to allow a wee baby plot element to grow up into a pivotal story component.

[Biggles]

When the quantumn space thing started, I was expecting it to be a trick on the reporter (they drugged her or something, then made the excuse about "quantumn space"). But then we saw it, and I was a little sad.

[Messiah]

I thought the same Biggles. It was a bit childish for Sheridan as well..

[Falcon1]

I'm with Sanfam on the surprise attack. Sure the Centauri had been declining in power for quite some time but their fleet was always a major threat. Despite the Warlock, the EA has nothing to match the speed and the firepower of a Centauri Vorchan cruiser. Add those to the surprise attack mix and the EA doesn't stand much of a chance. I remember reading that it was unknown how mnay Vorchans were in the Centauri fleet as they just kept building them.

Given that hyperspace has beacons to detect ships, maybe quantumn space operates slightly differently other wise all routes close to Earth and the colonies would have had advance warning. Or maybe JMS didn't think of it :rolleyes:

[Biggles]

I thought the same Biggles. It was a bit childish for Sheridan as well..

A little, but he hates reporters. :p